magazine-category: Dialogue with partner

　　

High-quality silk raw materials

Shuzo Oka（General Manager, Textile Raw Materials Department, Matsumura Co., Ltd.）×Kanako Kajihara（Textile Designer）×Masaru Yoshimura（Kiwakoto Director）

This time Kiwakoto spoke to Silk brushed blanket manufacturer Takiyoshi and Silk Cashmere Stall Muto to release textile products packed with artisans’ attention. This time, we welcomed designer Kanako Kajihara, who has been looking at textiles from around the world, on the project, focusing on the material “silk” as a textile that we want to put together in a luxurious lifestyle, and decided to incorporate it into our products.
By chance, Takiyoshi and Muto, who we are requesting this time, have been purchasing yarns by Matsumura, a silk trading company founded in Kyoto for 155 years.
To make good things, use raw materials. We also spoke with the general manager of the textile raw materials department of the company, which supports the production of one of Japan’s leading textiles.

Yoshimura：
Mr. Kajihara, I think the key word in this product development is “silk”, but please tell us about its attractiveness and value in the global market.

Kajihara：
In the days when kimonos were the main focus, silk was used closely in everyday life. However, in today’s development of Western-style clothing, the image of expensive and difficult to maintain has preceded, making it difficult to use many. However, in recent years, it has become known that the amino acid formulation of silk, which is a natural fiber, is closest to the human skin, and not only the aspect of luxury material, but also as a material that does not put a comfortable burden on the body, recognition has increased. In Japan, silk has been developed that can be washed at home by making use of processing technology, and top maisons overseas have been highly evaluated for the development of Japanese functional silk simply as well as high-quality, fine-grained silk threads.
In addition, I think that Japanese technology is highly evaluated for the combination of silk and other materials, and for silk-like synthetic materials.

Oka：
In recent years, we have realized that the number of customers seeking high-quality silk in the apparel industry, such as socks and underwear, has increased due to the functional attractiveness of being gentle on the skin.

Yoshimura：
With the liberalization of silk yarn and silk fabrics in 2005, major general trading companies were withdrawn from silk one after another. Why did your company survive in such a situation?

Oka：
Before the liberalization of silk yarn and silk fabrics, silk was, so to speak, a “interest business”. At that time, most of the major trading companies were in the business of dealing with silk, but since it became a free transaction, it gradually withdrew. Our company has grown with the development of kimono, with the strength that salesmen visited customers directly every day, mainly in the Nishijin area with ground in Kyoto. We were able to continue to respond to customer requests in detail and build relationships, so we were able to survive without being greatly affected even after liberalization.

Kajihara：
Recently, Indian silk is also attracting attention as an industry. Production control is still difficult, so it may be developed in the future.

Oka：
In Vietnam, there are also factories where Japanese Americans divert traditional Japanese technology and have developed an integrated base of yarn. Along with our technology, we have established a careful production system, which is One of Japan’s strengths, and we believe that it will continue to grow in the future.
We can purchase excellent materials from such producers, and we can create and deliver appropriate materials according to the site of each manufacturing.

Kajihara：
I think that the sensitivity of the delicate and polite making of Japanese products will be able to cultivate the ultimate technology and produce materials and products that are required from the global stage. I am very grateful to be able to interact with wonderful craftsmen, and I would like to match the design to the material so that I can inherit the baton. I would also like many people to experience what comes from Japanese manufacturing.

Yoshimura：
Through silk materials, I learned that Japan’s continuous spirit of technology and manufacturing is creating new market value through passing down in Japan and abroad. Over the past ten years, the kimono industry has been shrinking, but the spirit of manufacturing has been alive, and the technology cultivated there has changed shape and will remain in the future. We also want to create initiatives to create such a positive chain.

　　

Textiles in the air

Hideyuki Muto, Keisuke Muto (Muto Co., Ltd.) x Kanako Kajiwara (Textile Designer) x Masaru Yoshimura (Kiwakoto Director)

Yamanashi textiles first appeared in books during the Heian period. In a book that details the law of the time called “Engishiki”, there is a sentence meaning “The country of Kai (Yamanashi) should pay cloth”. In addition, the medicine of immortality which was said to be in “Mt. Fuji at the end of the eastern sea” came to Japan in the age of the first emperor of the qin, but the medicine was not finally found, and it was not possible to return to the hometown, and it married the daughter of the village. It is said that they lived in the land of Fujiyoshida and passed on the art of textiles to the people of the village, and before long, textiles became popular in the village.
The spring water of Mt. Fuji is super soft water and does not contain any excess minerals, so it is said to be suitable for dyeing. There was also the benefit of the land, and it developed as a production area where we can weave the beautiful color pattern of the pre-dyed.
We will talk to Hideyuki Muto of Mutoh Co., Ltd. and Mr. Keisuke Muto, who are making stalls for ultrafine yarns made of natural materials here. In less than 30 years, a small workshop with sales of about 300 million yen honed the world’s top-class technology and created textiles that are unique here.

Yoshimura:
Today, Mr. Kajiwara from Tokyo and we gathered at Muto’s workshop from Yamanashi in Kyoto. The air is clean and comfortable. This time, Mr. Kaiwara’s proposal was also available, and I am very happy to be able to make things with you.

Kajiwara:
You’ve only met Muto-san at textile exhibitions these days, haven’t you? I visited the workshop for the first time in a long time. When I first started a product brand, I started making Japanese stalls, and I met them when I was looking for materials in various production areas. WhenI talked about Kiwakoto’s stall, I suggested Mr. Muto first. Technically the world’s top class, a natural fiber that sticks to a soft texture and comfort like no other. I thought intuitively that if I collaborated on the dyeing technology of Kyoto, I would surely be able to do something attractive. I want customers who keep looking at good things to take it.

Hideyuki Muto:
Collaboration with other production areas is very exciting! We are under pressure to make most of our processes in-house, but now I feel that this system is creating opportunities. We continue to weave stalls based on natural materials of ultrafine yarns. We have a system that can handle dyeing, weaving, and finishing in our own company. At its peak, Fujiyoshidahad 40,000 weaving machines. Now it has 2,000 cars. In the old days, many artisans worked hard, and when they brought in a little unusual work, they immediately cooperated with them, saying, “OK, I’ll do it.” Now that there are 2,000 units, and as the number of artisans ages, new jobs often start with a refusal, “I’m a little busy right now” or “I’ve never done it.”
Against this background, we decided the direction of we weave with ultra-fine yarn of natural materials, and if we did not make it in-house inevitably, we couldn’t weave the stall that I was looking for.

Keisuke Muto:
Because it is in-house completion, when customers say, “I want to do this kind of thing”, it is easy to take a step first to try. However, there are disadvantages, and when the process to cover becomes wider, it tends to become wide and shallow, and efficiency tends to decrease. If you try to stick to a single point, the speed will slow down, and you will not be able to proceed with your work because of the speed that the market demands. I believe that the theme in the future is not to lose technology and to speed up the market.

Kajiwara:
In order to face the world’s modes, it is also important to have the timing of the proposal and the speed at which it is produced. They are always asked for new ideas, so we need to update and promote them. The speed of the IT industry is also required for manufacturing.
　　

It is important to be aware of changes in the market. More than that, find what you want to make and do it thoroughly.

Hideyuki Muto:
My father’s generation made dumpling fabric for wedding beddings. At that time, the head of the bedding shop was this wedding bedding. It was a time when millions and hundreds of thousands of futon sets were selling normally. At that time, the sales of the workshop were 3.5 billion yen. The break-even point is 1.4 billion. Just because the break-even point is far below, sales of 80 million yen have decreased in about five years before I joined the company. As a university student, I thought instantly that I could not eat this product for the rest of my life.
The manufacturer’s strategy is to drop different technologies in the same market or change the market with the same technology. I introduced equipment to work on duvets and wool beddings that were beginning to be popular at that time, in order to develop the same market with different techniques. What I noticed when I tried it was that this area would not be a business if we could invest more than 2 billion yen in capital investment, purchase of raw materials, etc.
For example, by the time you purchase the raw materials from Hungary and enter Kobe Port, you will lose time if the next raw material does not depart Hungary (even though it is not already a product). It was a very crazy business for a small workshop with sales of 300 million.
Immediately, I decided that it was impossible, and worked on the development of clothing to return to the textile. I worked on it for about two years, but at the time, it was a very detailed job in the era when designer brands were flourishing, and I was very nervous about what To do.

Kajiwara:
In the 1900s, I think it was an era when japanese designer brands were growing and very energetic, and a lot of work flowed through Japanese production areas, and how to adjust to the unreasonable challenges of designers. In particular, Fujiyoshida was recognized in regions and industries with characteristics of high-density silk jacquards, so I think there were many development requests with a focus on design properties.

Hideyuki Muto:
That’s the time. When I was walking through the department store, I saw a muffler of about 5,000 yen at that time. I thought momentarily, “This is what I’m going to do.” As soon as we were woven with our machine, we prototyped it, and when We took it to a wholesaler with whom we had a relationship, we lined up at the sales floor and sold well. If I had a talent for management, but soon I was just entering the bubble. After the bursting of the bubble, we reduced the size of our workshop and endured it, wondering what I wanted to do and why I was attracted to stalls.
The answer was touch. I felt the softness like human skin. And the demand of the good touches, the materials must be chose well. In addition, the domestic market is a time when Chinese products are entering rapidly, and if you wanted to do it in Fujiyoshida’s production area, you have to product luxury goods. If I’m going to do it anyway, I’ll try to be the top class in the world.

Kajiwara:
I’m also concerned about natural materials.

Hideyuki Muto:
When we worked on the gentle material, we used natural fibers. The texture will be made from the thinness of the thread. Only natural fibers are woven. I decided to weave only the thinnest thread in the world among natural fibers and decided to aim for the world’s top.

If you don’t have the know-how in your production area, you can sometimes take it from the outside.

Yoshimura:
The intention that Fujiyoshida handled with what you want to make was consistent with the “luxury stall of natural materials” axis. I think that thin thread becomes the point, but was there a thread in the world that Muto wanted?

Hideyuki Muto:
It seemed to have been in circulation in some parts, but it was not so easy to get to one workshop in the countryside. Science fibers have a larger distribution volume than natural fibers. One day, I visited a major furry fabric shop, its factory brought the stall fabric of Loro Piana, the highest quality that I thought, and said, “It’s Loro Piana’s fabric, and I think the thread is number 110. Please make a yarn that is thinner than this thread with natural fibers.” Because the fabric which cost about 500,000 yen was cut off on the spot, the other party was surprised, but it was said that it bought the momentum. Because the unit price was 3,000 yen /kg, the investment of 30 million yen, at all, it is an unreasonable amount. I bowed my head again and asked for it to be made at 100kg.

Hideyuki Muto:
Every time I see a furry fabric shop, I ask if there’s a thin thread, I get the 300 hemp number, and the next year I get the 500, saying, “There’s something thinner.” No. 500 is much thinner than chemical fibers in 29 deniers. In this way, we continue to pursue the thinness more and more. In addition, we are also challenging the fine count of organic cotton.

Kajiwara:
It is very rare in the industry to be thin with a single thread of organic cotton. Usually, I only want to make up to 100, so I think it’s great to challenge number 125.

Hideyuki Muto:
On Earth, it is said that 70% of the total agricultural chemicals are used in cotton cultivation. Simply, if all of them become organic cotton, we hear that the pesticide on the planet will be reduced by 70%, and I think that it is one of the materials that we want to work on more actively. There are only a limited number of things that Muto can do alone and what can be done in a single production area called Fujiyoshida. We believe that it is important to find out how to make the most of the technology of our company and production areas by incorporating things that are not self-sufficient from the outside.

Yoshimura:
It is the idea of Sakamoto Ryoma who advanced the opening of the country to adopt the good one flexibly!

Kajiwara:
The people who are facing the making of the thing of the commitment of Japan are concerning about what Muto is working on now.

Hideyuki Muto:
I’m talking openly about what I’m doing. If you can imitate it just by talking, you can do it. That’s the more you’ll be fighting. In addition, this Fujiyoshida area has the nature to pursue things that can only be done to me. Because it is an environment where the original is what cannot be done elsewhere and each other has enhanced each other, each one is open to what it is doing fast, and a good thing is adopted. That’s how I’ve survived the sound of the machine for over a thousand years.

Manipulate looms, aim into the world.

Kajiwara:
The top Maisons in Japan are well known for their technological capabilities. In order to further develop, the next generation, including your sons, are actively appearing at exhibitions to cut into luxury brands in Europe and the United States.

Keisuke Muto:
As we collaborate with universities and establish our own technical brands, we have adopted young people who want to be involved in fabric making. Some of them have emigrated from Yokohama. I am very grateful for the environment where I can work from the point of “Let’s do it first” mainly in my thirties.
　　
In order to maximize the texture of natural materials, we are studying how to use looms every day. The machine is moved at low speed, and the space where the weft is thrown, that is, the part where the warp and the warp cross is wide open, and weaves so that the weft is wrapped in warp. By doing so, you can loosen your eyes and finish it in the fabric without breaking the texture of the material. It takes time and is inefficient, but if you don’t, you won’t be able to stall Muto. While the loom is moving, the craftsmen stick to the machine. It is a job that requires physical strength and patience.

Yoshimura:
The moment you touch the gentle stall of fluffy, what impresses you is not only the quality, but also the people who can create this
I think it’s because I feel the soul. I want to continue to be a fan of the stall that Muto-san will create in the future, and I want to convey the wonderfulness to many people.

　　
The next story is the story of a silk trading company founded 155 years ago in Kyoto, which supports Japan’s leading textile production.

*Single thread
A single thread is used for single thread, and two threads are combined into one thread. Twin threads, because it twists the two threads together, becomes thick and upper, the thickness than one thread (single thread) becomes a uniform yarn.

　　

Fluffy Silk

Yoshinori Takitani (Takiyoshi Co., Ltd.) x Kanako Kajihara (Textile Designer) and Yu Yoshimura (Kiwakoto Director)

Brushing is a technique that makes the surface of a fabric fluff edge with a special tool. In Japan, it was established as a technique to make blankets in the bedding industry for half a century. Mr. Yoshi yoshi started the first train as a processing shop specializing in brushing. The Osaka-IzumiOtsu area developed as an OEM production area for major futon manufacturers, and at that time, the process was divided into regions. However, in order to “make good things” without being bound by the common sense of the production area, Mr. Yoshiyoshi, who was a latecomer, gradually expanded the range that he could do in-house, and finally led to the development of his own products. A 100% silk blanket that became a signboard product. The product itself has become a salesman, and it has attracted attention from maisons around the world and has a track record of being adopted in clothing. We listen to the attractiveness of products created by the strong will and commitment of craftsmen.

Yoshimura:
First of all, please tell us about the technology of brushing.

Kajihara:
The process of bringing out the fluff of the fibers on the surface of the fabric is called brushing. Rotate the roller serily and needlecloth, and then run the cloth over it to pull the fibers out of the thread on the surface of the fabric. It is a processing technology that increases the thickness of the fabric, increases the thermal insulation power, and provides a flexible touch.
It is a very old process, and you can see the handguard-like object scratching the surface of the fabric in the murals of Pompeii ruins. Later, in 1684, a brushing machine was first created in Europe using the azami plant. The rolled-out fabric was scratched in one direction with a bruise, and then the fluff was scratched in the opposite direction again. At the World’s Fair in Paris in 1855, a brushing machine with needle cloth rolls was exhibited, and in 1872 a five-roll wire brushing machine was developed to replace the azami brushing machine in the UK. In 1894, a british national brushing machine was installed at a textile company in Osaka, and the production of domestic brushing machines began and developed from Wakayama.

Yoshimura:
Izumi Otsu seems to have developed as a place of bedding, but what was Takiyoshi’s position in the production area?

Takiyoshi:
As for the blanket industry, we started on the back burner. For that reason, we did a lot of things as we wanted, sold them in-house, proposed them to customers, and tried and tested. As for our own products, we didn’t start by deciding to retail at first, but we could dye the dyed yarn with our partners, so we decided to finish it here. We have been able to expand the range that we can do more and more by involving other processing destinations in the region.

Kajihara:
The hair-raising of Takiyoshi is very thick, supple, and has a fluffy feel. Today, I was allowed to look at the flow of production again, and I learned that I have fine-tuned the appearance and shearing process repeatedly and fine-tuned the appearance of facial expressions many times. Also, after listening to the story, I learned that the quality of the raw machine has a great influence. It is considered from the raw material of the yarn, the yarn to the weaving tissue, and I thought that there is a special texture of Mr. Yoshi to this research and the accumulation of knowledge.

Stick to the desire to make good things

Takiyoshi:
riginally, like other companies, the most work was to take care of the fabric, process the hair brush, and pass it on to the next process. One day, when I brushed the fabric I had kept, I couldn’t get a good hair brush at all. If the fabric is bad, the brushing does not go well, why is the fabric bad… I gradually realized that it was because I was stinging the raw materials. The president who is the father is a craftsman up. Therefore, we had a strong desire to make good things, and gradually we started to make our own fabrics, and we started to select materials ourselves. As it happened, we had a relationship with Mr. Matsumura from Kyoto, a trading company specializing in silk yarn, and we decided to try from arranging yarn and making fabrics ourselves. Then, it was able to do the one that the other company had done much better than the one that I had brushed in the cloth brought in by other companies.

Yoshimura:
It is a result of the commitment that it became 100% silk.

Takiyoshi:
Other companies also imitated our house and put out silk brushing. However, even if the superficial thing of silk can be imitated, it seems that other companies were not able to follow it fundamentally.

Kajihara:
The raw material of silk is expensive, and I think that there is a resolution to develop it. There are only a limited number of suppliers, and it’s not a market where anyone can buy good raw materials right now, do they?

Takiyoshi:
There are some people who have said, “If you make cheap stuff, you can make cheaper things and sell a lot of them,” but it’s not interesting to make them with such cheap ingredients. Are you happy to give it to someone if you bought it? And, the first president did not try to do. Because it is not a sales field, but a person on the side of making, it was not in my eyes at all to make using cheap material simply by silk.

Yoshimura:
The overwhelmingly good thing is that you don’t think about the price.

Each product is a salesman

Takiyoshi：
Rather, it was said by the wholesaler, “Why is it not possible for you to have Takiyoshi’s?” in the other side. Fortunately, we didn’t touch any of the ingredients below a certain level, and the image that “Takiyoshi’s blanket is of good quality” was completed, and each product became a salesman and became a reputation. Eventually, the silk itself became higher, and other companies pulled out, and the house remained.

Kajihara:
I came across Takiyoshi’s fabric because I received an introduction from a trading company in Osaka that I should take a look at it. It had been popular since then. It feels light even though it is dense. At the time, I was looking at it as a clothing, so I felt that this lightness was very attractive. The lightness of the appearance and the gap is also a heavy emphasis in product development in recent years.

Takiyoshi:
Well, when we started our products, it was thicker, but in this day and age, the number of elderly people is getting more and more heavy and heavy things are disliked. In the apartment, the house is relatively warm even in winter compared to the old days, so what we can handle has become thinner. If you want to make the fabric thinner and lighter, you won’t be able to use bad material more and more. It is necessary to properly select long raw materials for fibers that can withstand overlapping processes. There is a good raw material, and the design of the structure of the fabric which finishes thinly, the organization which is easy to brush, the hardness of the fabric which is easy to brush, the process of drying with moderate moisture or not, all can be repeated, and it is possible to brush the best state by repeating all subtle adjustments. In everything, I can’t get out of hand.

Kajihara:
In this day and age, it has become commonplace for subcontractors to make their own products and invest their products in the market, but it is amazing that they have continued to carry them out on their own as a forerunner.
We will continue to improve technological innovation and pursuit, and we will continue to improve our market feedback while receiving flexible feedback.

Yoshimura:
You can taste the touch comfort and lightness, of course, and the upper texture. The machines in the workshop themselves were very impressive that there were many things that were not the latest but rather those with the age, and I realized that it was the craftsmanship of Japan that skilled craftsmen made subtle adjustments in all processes and created the best condition to apply fabric to the last brushing machine.

　　
Next time, it is a story of the birth of the textile of the ultra-fine yarn of the natural material made in Yamanashi, Fujiyoshida.

　　

Japan-made textiles that fascinate the world

Kanako Hagiwara (Textile Designer) x Masaru Yoshimura (Kiwakoto Director)

Do you know that in the past few years, Japanese textile workshops have exhibited at exhibitions around the world and have presented to top Maisons? It is said that japanese textiles are gaining support from designers around the world, as it is said that they will not adopt a strong Maison unless it is made-in-Japan. Kiwakoto’s textile-related designer Kajihara continues to select Japanese textiles as his life’s work and propose them to overseas Maisons.
This time, we will deliver the series in four installments “Partner Talk – Japan Made Textiles”
Textile designer Kanako Kajihara and Kiwakoto Director Yoshimura listen to the stories of workshops with leading Japanese technologies and delve into the story of how they have grown with a commitment.

Yoshimura:
How many global textile events do you have per year?

Kajihara:
As for the fashion market, exhibitions areheld once every six months in Paris, Milan, New York and Shanghai. As for the interior market, exhibitions are held once a year in Germany, Italy, New York, Turkey and Shanghai.

Yoshimura:
What do the world, especially the top maisons, want from textiles?

Kajihara:
We are looking for textile designs to shape the direction that the Top Maison wants to express. It is important to make proposals based on understanding the world view of each Maison, but we also need new concepts and designs that capture changes in society one step ahead. In addition, we are always looking for stimulation from a global perspective. I think that it is sensitive about the latest information and technological innovation of the textile with originality.

Japanese technology to pursue the potential of textiles

Yoshimura：
What is the evaluation of Japan Made? What do you feel the value of?

Kajihara:
First of all, it is technical technology. Japan has technologies that are recognized as the top level in the world. The combination of technologies that exist only in Japan, developed from Japanese kimono culture and traditional crafts, and processes ranging from unique yarns, weaving, knitting, and processing, and its development ability to pursue delicate, high-quality finishes have been highly evaluated. It is a Factory in Japan that pursues the limits of textiles and can make the thinnest fabrics in the world. In addition, post-processing technology that can express a particularly complex texture is attracting attention from overseas.
Second, it is spirituality. In particular, I think that I am longing for the simple, modest and strong spirit of The Japanese, which is handed down from the culture of wabi-sabi, tea ceremony, flower arrangement, kendo, and other traditions. Among them, it continues to be popular for the texture and color of old-fashioned stray clothes such as indigo dyeing and sashimi.
Third, production management capacity. Japan is likely to be able to respond sincerely and honestly, and its credibility in business is highly evaluated. I think Made in Japan has a high value-added image of high quality.

Yoshimura:
Kajihara you are continuing to select textiles from each region and propose them to the Top Maison, but what was the reason why you were thinking about working on them?

Kajihara:
My feelings for Japan and my passion for the textile industry have had a big impact on me when I was studying in the UK.
While working in expression overseas, I was always asked about the environment, ethnicity, culture, and ideas that I grew up in. In the process, I reexamined the uniqueness and spirituality of Japanese history and culture and learned once again that traditional dyeing and weaving has rules and meanings in line with the message and customs of colors and shapes.
I also noticed that there are many people who are interested in Japanese culture overseas, but after I put myself overseas.
However, i think that the current Japanese tradition has become something that cannot be easily used because there are problems that have not been able to cope with the changes of the times, including the expansion of the growth of Western style after the war and the expensive price range.
In addition, as the traditional craft industry and kimonos are sluggish, the number of artisans and going out of business has also become a problem.
In addition to the technological succession of traditional crafts, the Japanese textile industry has been increasingly producing products since 2000 due to the rapid growth of production areas in Asia, such as China. The battle of the industry which is multiplying the survival by the development of the one-of-a-kind that can only be done in Japan continues.
As the future of the future is more digital and there is a possibility that we will move away from the past, our generation must try to connect tradition to the future. I wanted to return from overseas and do activities that would allow me to continue the Japanese culture and textile industry.
　　
For the 12 years since I returned to Japan in 2006, I have been working on the field of production, leading proposals for the future in design, and communicating Japanese manufacturing, but I still think the road is not easy.
Since many small and medium-sized enterprise manufacturers are not in a situation where development, expenses, and operating expenses are smooth, long-term reform plans are difficult to develop and require narrowed development and short-term results. On the other hand, it is necessary to move to develop sales channels at the same time, and I felt many difficult barriers, but since there are no goals, I want to overcome it with an awareness of continuing.
In addition, the production volume of orders ordered in Japan has been decreasing, and many companies tend to be reluctant to design even though they are good at developing technology at a turning point in which in-house development of factories and in-house sales capabilities are required. There seemed to be stress in creating a design in-house that was not sure whether it would sell. Therefore, I try to suppress my position as a designer, explain trends in colors and patterns that make use of marketing as an easy-to-understand manner, and discuss development after understanding production efficiency, so that the factory people are conscious of how to proceed without anxiety.
In addition, the problem of aging of factories is large, and I have seen many scenes where young people do not last long even if they come in.
I think that it is difficult to grow the work of the reform which plants the seed of the future in the place where there are few people, but how to make the first entrance of young people as the times change, I think that it is necessary in any production area to create a system to think about the future together.

Yoshimura:
I thought textiles were a equipment industry. There is a machine, and it is possible if there is raw materials. However, if you visit various production areas, it does not mean that anyone can do it if you have a device.

To continue the textile industry is a challenge of mind and patience

Kajihara:
Mass production-type work that can be done if there is a machine and raw materials may be becoming the role of other countries.
If you’re doing something easy and easy, you’ll lose the global price competition.
In order to continue the textile industry in Japan, it is necessary to have the spirit to take on challenges and the ability to think.
Each manufacturer has his own ideas for making machines, yarn, and materials. In order to be able to face and face processes that take time and effort, it is necessary to have a person with strong feelings and patience. I think that it is important to leave the industry of the making of the thing to raise such a person.

Yoshimura:
How is Kyoto’s textiles evaluated globally? There are some studios that are branded.

Kajihara:
Although the overall production volume has shrunk, Japanese culture remains, and I think Kyoto in particular still has a large weight in Kimono.
However, I think that the proposal for overseas fashion mode is at the stage where the system corresponding to the global is not sufficient. For example, in the main development of Japanese-style kimono, the point that uses a small loom does not match the standard of fabric width of clothmaking of Western clothes, there is a part that is difficult to sell overseas.
On the other hand, there is also a top maison that always comes to Kyoto for research every year, and the possibility of textiles in Kyoto is expected from all over the world.
　　
At Nishijin-ori, Hosoo of Kyoto has made it possible to respond in w width, and I think globalization was rapid.
As the number of contacts with the world increases, information becomes easier to enter, and I think that it captures the beauty of Japan that the world appreciates for its design.
In addition, Hisayama Dyeing Co., Ltd. has continued to develop by adding unique processing ideas to the hand-stained technology, so it has been evaluated by the top Maison. I think that it is easy to receive evaluation on a global ground if it is recognized as a standard that is easy to use as a textile only here and is easy to use as a cloth and interior material.

Yoshimura:
The value of Japanese textiles that We have cultivated through the efforts of each workshop with the ability to act when we realize that there are opportunities overseas. What do you think is necessary now to connect this to the future?

Kajihara:
I think that it is important not only the desire but also the realistic execution whether it is possible to try to connect to the future by the thought of the people involved.
First of all, I think it is necessary to learn the direction that the global market and the target brand want. I think that it is a game whether it is possible to know the color, the pattern, and the texture that the age demands, and to propose the design that the top maison wants.
Second, I think whether it is possible to show the timing well and produce it quickly. Since there is a period of presentation, it is very important to be able to introduce it there. In addition, it is whether it is possible to produce accurately according to the global standard after receiving the order. In the fashion of quick development, time is the game. Short delivery times are always required.
Third, it is necessary to think about not only textile sales but also product sales. As a mechanical equipment, there may be a limit to the development of textile sales that quickly deploy textiles of techniques that take production delivery time, and there is a factory that can only produce small quantities. I think that one way to develop a line to sell products that make use of original technology globally.

　　
Next time, it is the charm of the highest peak silk brushing made in Izumi Otsu, Osaka.

Miyabe：
At the time of this collaboration, I wanted to make something to be able to introduce “something cannot be replaced” by the history of thousands of years in Kyoto.
　　
On the first day I came to Kyoto, I went to see various kinds of materials with Mr. Yoshimura, but at that point I didn’t have any ideas. There were a lot of wonderful materials and patterns, but I thought there was a sense of incompatibility as a driving shoe. I couldn’t imagine the effect. Then I asked to go and see the workshop of SONOBE Dye Work.

Marbling is to draw patterns by hanging the pigment on the water and draw a line, the most surprise for me is the perfect timing of put fabric on the water and then quick take it up. In the assumption of the minute, I had an image that had been immersed in water and waited until the color was settled. When I saw the movement, I felt it just like camera shutter.
　　
I was reminded of the experiment of fluid dynamics while I was looking at the pattern on the water surface. Fluid, there is a rule in the flow of water and air, and it moves by the rule “it must be sure to come out once in one place”. The instantaneous flow is usually visualized by recording it as a photograph that is not recognized visually. The collaboration process was created when I thought that the movement of the fluid was able to cut the movement of the fluid in the form close to the photograph.

Yoshimura ：
When Miyabe said, “I want to express the fluid”, and when I showed the picture of aero dynamics used in the wind tunnel experiment of the car, I had the common recognition of what I wanted to express. The body design of the car also carries out aero management from this fluid dynamics and controls air resistance. It was an instant synchronized with the flow of the air and the flow of the ink.
This cutting was an exciting idea for kiwakoto. When we first met the marbling, we were fascinated by the beauty of the pattern of the water surface changing rapidly. Miyabe paid attention to the point of “cut in a moment”. I was surprised at the point of view of the collaboration.

Kazushige MIYAKE is the designer who considered the idea and project of “Luxury Driving Life” with Kiwakoto from very first. What kind of desires would be asked in car driving, and how to meet exact implementation requirements from traditional crafts? He went to the workshop many times, repeating the trial manufacture, until the release of our products. And this time, we want to talk about how does design relate to traditional crafts.

Yoshimura:
What you considered about the car driving and traditional crafts when you heard it in the begging?

Miyake:
Both of them are in the conversion period. The automotive is changing by new energy and A.I. technology, and the traditional crafts are also changing by the market’s requirements and the structure of crafts system. I thought it would be interesting if they could match each other.

Yoshimura:
Yes, both of them are asked to change quickly by the changing of lifestyle and the development of technology. Did you have something to worry about while developing the products by traditional crafts?

Miyake:
I worried about how to express the “value” of the traditional crafts. In the past, traditional crafts were making objects those were rooted in daily life. But now a lot of them became luxury goods. Due to the present situation, I must consider what is traditional crafts in modern time, not from the position of creator, but the position of who will “buy and use” them.

Yoshimura:
I think it’s complete different from the MUJIRUSHIRYOHIN or the ±0 household appliances field which you participate in the design.

Miyake:
Certainly, it is a fact that the manufacturing method is different between the mass production like the electric appliances and the traditional crafts, but it is same in the viewpoint of “telling the value of the product to the customer” as the axis of the design. By the reason, I think design it is not only a simple information or technology on the surface, but one thing what you must try hard to dig and find out its true value.

Yoshimura:
The axis of design and the value digging process, the industrial products and traditional crafts are same in those points.

Miyake:
Yes. The field of traditional crafts is changing, it’s not only the power of technology or the charm you can see on the surface. It’s “value” (or faith) what people seek, and the value makes design indispensable. And for this, the chances for design is increasing.

Yoshimura:
Are there any tasks for traditional industries when you look at other industries?

Miyake:
I just said that manufacturing method is different between industrial products and traditional crafts, so the handmade products might be asked how to communicate value to customers. Not the simple value of perform well and convenience, but the nice design and the value of handmade must be communicated to customers. The charming point is, the handmade products are able to provide the value of humanity. However, the steps of manufacturing process are not consistent, it is a complex process, the manufacturing is divided by steps. In my opinion, if we can’t unify the wishes of all relevant producers, we can’t produce good products. Therefore, it is important to unify our opinions more closely.

Yoshimura:
What is the “design” that people pursue in nowadays?

Miyake:
I think is the design which can express its value thoroughly. The design should not be only a product made by the creator’s consideration, and it should understand the demands of buying and using side, and it is possible to connect the value of the creator’s worth.

Yoshimura:
Did you see the finished products lined up in showroom?

Miyake:
Showroom is a place where customers and products can meet each other. I wish it’s not a place that the work accomplished, but a place to collect the voices from customers and improve the design.

Yoshimura:
Please tell me about the “luxury driving life” in your imagination.

Miyake:
Certainly, driving an expensive car to enjoy the special space and make a good mood is a kind of luxury. But if can put your favorite things in the special space, the atmosphere of the car space will be changed, the mood will become high… I think it’ll be a very extravagant moment. People’s feelings change little by little with the times. “Luxury” also changes with the changes of the times.

Yoshimura:
Although traditional craftsmanship has a classical impression, but it was also a leading thing in the past. With the impression of that era, how to change and continue to convey value is very important for the brand as a reflection of luxury lifestyle. Thank you very much today.

Yoshimura:
The charming point of the factory of Kirai kiln is the amorous feelings of nature. It’s very rare in Kyoto where there’s a place for people to make the pottery with hearing the voice of frogs and the tweets of skylarks.

Sasaki:
Thank you for the praise. When my predecessor has built here as the base for the work, considered about the imagine and feeling in the future, the seedling maple tree now it has grown into a beautiful Red-leaf landscape.
　　
Beside the chawan (tea bowl), now I do the ceramic board making for the interior of tapestry too. It is very difficult to fire porcelain on a board with the technique of Raku Yaki. But this is the “individuality” which cultivated by 110 years. It is famous about a talking of Kyoto’s enterprises will be well-known after 100 years, but it’s not because of the value of ancient things, but because of the accumulation of the experience in the times, we can really feel the heritage of the culture and technology.

Mr. SONOBE in this dialogue is very important leader who established the technique of ink flow dyeing of Yūzen. Though he is 80 years old this year, still working with his disciples in the factory, challenging and seeking the new methods of dyeing technique. Not only the making of Japanese traditional clothes, but also the normal apparel materials and the materials those are used for fashion designs, Sonobe is larger the possibility of his work, he wants to make an evolution with the aesthetic consciousness from Japanese tradition and the new modern designs. As a great predecessor of life, we must respect him.

Yoshimura:
Thank you for your work all the time. We are surprised of the range of the materials dyed by the technique of ink flow dyeing, leather, cotton, and silk etc. So, what is your purpose to dye so many materials?

Sonobe:
There’s no purpose for me to do this, but a spread inevitably. Usually I consider about to make things what can not be copied by the others, and if my creations were copied, I would stop making those, and developed new things. My work is a circle like this.

Yoshimura：
I think it’s difficult to develop new things, isn’t it?

Sonobe:
For example. It’s always said that the revolution of the ink-jet technique replaced the job of craftsmen in the past, but I don’t agree with that.
　　
Ink-jet made the manual work meaningless, it made a great speed to efficiency of workmanship, it’s rather good in this point. And even some ink-jet works can’t be distinguished of machine making or handmade. But artisans can not be feeling lost about it. We must accept the fact of the evolution of technique and try to figure out how to make the new tech and traditional manual work collaborate.

Yoshimura:
Is ink flow dyeing a technique cannot do by ink-jet?

Sonobe:
I don’t think so, if the ink-jet read the data of the ink flow dyeing, it can print the same effect too. But the point value of ink flow dyeing is, you can’t make the same pattern twice. This’s the most charming part of the manual work. In the past someone ordered a batch of t-shirts, about 3000 meters long of material, asked me to make it by ink-jet. Of course, I refused. In my opinion, the ink flow dyeing’s point value, it’s unreproducible.

Yoshimura:
Is there a secret of new challenging?

Sonobe:
People cannot create things by himself only, to meet partners, it’s very important.

Yoshimura:
You met partners of ink flow dyeing design?

Sonobe:
There are too many meets with grateful. And there are two people who gave me great influence. We could dye silk and cotton only at first, when we started to challenge dye the leather, a wholesaler came to my factory, he was moved so much by the moment of marvelous patterns which were dyed on the leather, then he told us he wants to help us to persuade his customer to try this, and then he did. We tried once and dyed perfectly. But when we started to dye a large piece of leather, there were some troubles, and he kept staying with us to conquer all of them.

Yoshimura:
And what about another one?

Sonobe:
A manufacturer of dyes whom I met. It’s while my training period, the Mardley dyeing was still making patterns on hard paste only, and the tools would become pasty, it’s very hard to wash off. I considered might we not use the paste then we could finish the work fast, just like now, almost dye all products on water. So, after we discussed with the manufacturer of dyes, he really worked very hard to develop the dyes which wouldn’t melt on water and wouldn’t mix up with each other for us. It shortened the work time for us, I really appreciate for what he did.

Yoshimura:
The challenge power of Mr. Sonobe is so attractive. And your disciples are also so enthusiastic, we are appreciating for the hard working for our needs always.

Sonobe:
The young craftsmen in the factory always say that they must thank to the teamwork. And the motto of our company is “the heart of creation, challenge, gratitude”, and we repeat it every morning.

Yoshimura:
I heard that you have been drawing flowers for learning the technique of express beauty while your training period.

Sonobe:
Yes, I have. Handwritten artisans express the beauty by balance. And they learn the balance from drawing flowers in different sizes.

Yoshimura:
Just like ikebana.

Sonobe:
The world of flowers is said about “heaven, earth, and human”. Heaven is in the highest, the earth in the lowest, and human in the middle. I couldn’t help to consider about the balance of color matching and patterns too. It’s not interesting to make patterns round only, triangle and rectangle are good too. I was often told “it’s less of lingering charm in same patterns” by my master.
　　
You may think all patterns are the same by one glance at ink flow dyeing but look from the entire of the dyeing you can find the exquisite changings of it.

Yoshimura:
You considered the balance at the very first of the work. I think there are many people want to see the flow of the dyeing work, and it’s very charming for me to see the patterns were changing on the water. It recalls me about the nobles of Heian period, they poured the ink into the river and enjoyed the changings of the ink comfortably. And we must thank to you Mr. Sonobe, it’s you and artisans like you make the marvelous techniques alive still.

Sonobe:
And I want to say, we must strive hard to work on, for more young people who want to come and work as an artisan. Let’s make good products together.

The partner Masato YOSHIHA in the dialogue this time, while he has been considering about repair the teapot from Edo Period (The Edo period (江戸時代, Edo jidai) or Tokugawa period (徳川時代) is the period between 1603 and 1868 in the history of Japan.) he suddenly used the casting technology to make the wine holders. He keeps working with the traditional methods and challenging to make new things every day.

We met each other in the working room of YOHSIHA and had a peaceful time with a cup of tea with hearing the rhythmic sound of casting. Masato’s grandfather, Yohei YOSHIHA the first was a disciple who has worked as a teapot maker of Senkejujushoku in the Onishi’s. He showed an excellent ability in making teapot, then independence from the Senkejushoku and made his own career. Senkejushoku is a joint name of painters, carpenters and other kinds of craftsmen who are working for three Senke (Omotesenke, Urasenke, Mushakojisenke, three genres of tea ceremony) of tea ceremony. Independence from the famous Onishi’s, always making new things in his career with a venture spirit, pursuing distinctiveness, this might be his fate. Masato is same as his grandfather, inherits the spirit and reconsidering about “what is a teapot”, I think we can read some of his consideration from the dialogue.

Yoshimura:
Thank you for meeting me today. Finally, the Nodate set (outdoor tea ceremony set) was completed. I think the concept of making a portable tea ceremony set made the design of the shape of the teapot difficult.

Yoshiha:
It took about one year. It’s satisfied for me able to make a simple design teapot as what I desired together with team.

Yoshimura:
I remember in the first meeting, when we discussed about how to keep the traditional teapot’s atmosphere and make a new “shape” to fit the modern style, you took some old documents of tea sets. The documents those records the works of Sen no Rikyū (千利休, 1522 – April 21, 1591, also known simply as Rikyū, is considered the historical figure with the most profound influence on chanoyu.) and his disciples. Designer Miyake and other staffs deepened the discussion after seen the documents. Why you showed the documents?

Yoshiha:
In my opinion, things left to us over centuries, whoever would think “Marvelous, I want it’s handed on”, and take very good care of it. In the other words, though it’s eliminated by time, but never forgotten by its grace.

Yoshimura:
You are right…. Although there were many things were made after it, it’s still left in the world.

Yoshiha:
For example, the fire shape pottery of the jōmon pottery (The Jōmon pottery (縄文土器, Jōmon doki) is a type of ancient earthenware pottery which was made during the Jōmon period in Japan. Traditionally dated between c. 14,000–300 BCE, recently refined to about 1000), you can feel the consideration of people lived in that time. The consideration was so amazing to make the nature into a work. Those works beyond ages and show us the intelligence and the power of study of human.

Yoshimura:
This time, for keeping the original grace of the teapot, you designed by the inspiration from the “square spout kettle” which designed by Sen no Sōtan (千宗旦1578–1658, also known as Genpaku Sōtan 元伯宗旦, was the grandson of the famed figure in Japanese cultural history, Sen no Rikyū.) the grandson of Sen no Rikyū. Combined the round and square into the making of the new teapot. I heard that you like big teapots.

Yoshiha;
The tea ceremony was only for men in the past, teapot was used to express the sense of male. To drink and enjoy the tea, used to be a way to appear the sense of presence. Though the out-door set must be made smaller in size, but the characteristics and shape were left for expressing the sense of presence.

Yoshimura:
Thank you for meeting me today, and please let me ask the first question.
Mr. Kato, are you an artisan? Or you prefer being called an artist? Work in a world of traditional crafts with many creators every day, I think the limit between artist and artisan is not so clear. Mr. Kato, are you also developing and making the kitchen tools while prohibiting your art works?

Kato:
I think both I am. Japanese “工芸” (KOGEI), is not a simple word as the English word “craft” but presented as the independent word “KOGEI” recently for express the special concept of Japanese.
　　
If I work as an artisan, I always work for the needs of customers. Not only make things to use, but things fit for the needs of people who use them. But if I work as an artist, I will express more ideas of myself, to create what only I can create.
　　
The techniques and the methods of expression from the explore of myself can make a feedback on the job which I do as an artisan, then I can make things exceed the needs of my customers asked. Hence, I always walk in dual identify between artisan and artist.
　　
I participate the exhibitions for reminding myself that my art works stand with the first-rate artists’ arts, then I must create things can be recognized without seeing my name.